Seccíon de forum EN ESPAÑOL

[mol]

I'm not sure it is good idea to divide forum for english/spanish
I have no time now to learn Spanish to participate in both forums...

But...

When I was ending studying anr write ending thesis, my profesor gave me some materials in French.
He asked me if I know French.
I said: NO!
He told me: don't worry French is very similar to English... only different spelling



best regards, Marek

[raumi75]

Hello,

I don't speak Spanish, either. Just barely enough to order food and drink on vacation. "Cerveca grande, por vavor"

But I like to participate in all of this forum.

English is not my native language, either. I think most people in this forum speak a different language at home. But open source software needs an exchange of ideas. Let's not segment the global village into small parts!

If Linus Torvalds would have only posted in Finish, Linux would never have happened.

I know, that Spanish is a great language, too and many people speak it. But lets stick with English. It is the de facto standard. We are not in school, here, so errors don't matter as long as we understand each other.

Why is clipper so popular in spanish speaking countries? Does anybody know?

Raumi

[apais]

Why is clipper so popular in spanish speaking countries? Does anybody know?
Raumi

Well.
I have a VERY polemic theory about that.
Clipper was the only tool that enabled common people develop computer programs.
Here Systems Engeniers work as salesmen, sysadmins, teachers, and anything but developing applications.
The few ones that do development work in communications and alike.
Almost all low level programming is done in USA, China and Europe so there is no room for C programmers in our market.
So common people ( tecnitians, accountants, hobbists, business owners ), has to do all business program stuff and they hate strong typing and all those {}.

Clippers commands is a real evolution in software.
While Microsoft and big companies bet on IDES and Intellisense to cover their criptic languajes and frameworks,
Clipper put the bullet on COMMANDS that hide all inner syntax complexities.
Two strong contendors were VB and VFOX but Microsoft killed them like CA did with Clipper.
Clipper was dead but now with tools like HMG the beast has reborn and I'm convinced a lot new people will come here in the next years atracted by simplicity power and efectiveness.

Let the big guys pay ten programmers to do the same work we do alone.

Just my view of reality.
Surely a lot of people disagree with me on this.
Anyway I'd love to read feedback !


Regards
Angel

PD: In my country the king is GENEXUS, an Intelligent and very expensive RAD Tool that can generate programs in a lot of platforms. http://www.genexus.com

[Roberto Lopez]

Hello,

I don't speak Spanish, either. Just barely enough to order food and drink on vacation. "Cerveca grande, por vavor"

Well... I'll give human language support too

Beer -> Cerveza
Big -> Grande
Please -> Por Favor

So, the correct translation is:

Cerveza grande, por favor

And since we are talking about that, I recommend Warsteiner

[Roberto Lopez]

Why is clipper so popular in spanish speaking countries? Does anybody know?

I mostly agree with Angel's post in this regard.

I could add something that could put you in context.

Economy here is very different that it is in rich countries.

So, most companies (excepting the really big ones) don't change its hardware every two years

Generally speaking, hardware is used until it becomes really really obsolete.

ie, one of my customers uses a Pentium II machine with Win98 as POS (via an HMG app.).

In this context, the 'system cycle' involving new hardware, new OS, new development tools and new custom software every two or three years, does not work here. Simply, there is not enough money for it

So, as Angel explained, a development tool like Clipper fitted perfectly on this economy.

[Rathinagiri]

Thanks for the info Roberto.

From this I can feel that, conservatism and conventionalism are not bad.

For core business applications/solutions we don't ever need sophisticated and high end hardware/software. The main concern is feasibility which involves mainly the cost of implementation. Reduction in cost and improvement in productivity are the main motto of computerization.

The same situation applies in India too.

[Pablo César]

Deseo expresar una opinión, (que es mi primera aqui en este tópico). Este tópico, parece que ahora no tiene sentido, porque han apagado los mensajes. Pero el propósito que tiene este tópico, es para dejar en claro que no se puede haber preconcepto cuanto a idioma, color de piel, religion, genero, raza, condicion sexual ni nada que en el presente y futuro debamos sentir verguenza por apoyar cualquier actitud de preconcepto.

Algunos hicieron reclamos y problemas por haber respondido en español en la sección español del forum. Esto ya viene ocurriendo hace algun tiempo. Mi idioma nativo es español, hablo vários idiomas, yo sé muy bien que existen dificultades en el entendimiento sobre todo cuando apelamos al TG (Traductor Google). Pero asi como todos nosotros que usamos el TG, lo hacemos tanto para el ingles y no veo por qué no hacerlo para el español. Es decir, todos tenemos dificultades con los diversos idiomas. Obligar a escribir en ingles o en cualquier otro idioma, me parece un absurdo. Asi que voy a defender siempre a los mios, porque estoy cansado de ver que a los latinos y del habla hispánica son tratados con desprecio, como si fuéramos de tercera categoria. Somos personas como cualquier otra, iguales a todos y exigimos respecto y consideracion. Puede parecerles agresivo de mi parte decir todo esto, pero muchos prefieren el silencio para no causar molestias y a veces por question de respecto dejan de hacer frente a exigir un derecho muy importante: RESPECTO !

Espero que con todo lo que ya sufri de intolerancia lenguistica y ofensas dirigidas a mi persona, se deje aqui claro que no iremos callarnos, iremos respectar las normas del forum, pero no dejaremos de comunicarnos y de ayudar a los otros de la manera que cada uno puede.

Quien esté desconforme con el idioma utilizado y eso provoque otra vez discordia, pido gentilmente que no haga acceso al forun de español. Nadie es obligado a responder ni a restringir a un solo idioma.

Deseo que mantegan el espiritu altruista de ayudar a los otros, no causar OFF TOPIC, ni ofensas y seguir trabajando para construir a favor de HMG cada vez mejor, para eso es necesario la participacion de TODOS.

Y agradezco a Roberto y Rathi por habernos propiciado con esta sección. Muchas gracias a los dos !

[Rathinagiri]

This I give as an administrator of the forum:

Basically in our forum we don't insist on any language. If somebody requires Englsih, that doesn't mean that they are hatred for any other language or they have a sweet corner for English. English as a common language accepted by many in the world, people want to understand what is said, that's all.

HMG forum is not a language defending/offending forum! HMG forum is just for HMG.

You can see that people post in English, Spanish, Polish and in some other languages too. This just shows the power and popularity of HMG which we have to be proud of. I want to link a particular topic here. We are all one family. HMG family. We might be different with religion, language, race, country and what not? But we are united here as HMG people.

As this section is HMG in Spanish, there is no restriction or condition in posting in Spanish.

The following is my personal opinion. Not as an administrator

Friends, Google translator is not perfect. So, if you know English I request you to post in English too. I had skipped hundreds of posts simply because they are not in English. Sure I will translate using Google translator if the topic is interested to me (for example mysql, sqlite, barcode like that). Otherwise, I had skipped the posts as such. But, consider if they might have been posted in English, I would have definitely read them. That depends upon my time and will.

Just as we can't compel anybody to post in a specific language, we can't compel anybody to use Google Translator to understand the posts also! It is their will.

If you want to get answer from many, please post in English too. That would be a nice proposition. If you want to get answer from only particular group of people, you can post in particular language. For example, I know Tamil and English only. If I keep on posting in Tamil who will be the loser?

[Pablo César]

Muy bien Rathi, buena linea de pensamiento. Yo pienso igual, lo unico que faltó agregar es que esta seccion sirve a muchos que no dominan el idioma ingles y que posibilita a los hispánicos y no hispánicos a escribir en español. Por ejemplo, en Brasil no se acostumbra a hablar en ingles y para mucho brasileros es muy dificil escribir en ingles. Ya en español les suele ser mas fácil. Este es otro argumento positivo para la manutencion de esta seccion.

Al final de cuentas si vamos a la cantidad de usuários que hablan idiomas, podemos ver que el mandarin (chino) es el primero, luego el español y después el ingles...

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Y otra cosa que quiero esclarecer, que yo siempre escribo en ingles (pueden ver mis tópicos), salvo aqui en la seccion en español. A veces junto con otro idioma (español o portugués) cuando tengo que explicar algo complicado para alguien que no domina el Inglés, pero siempre responde junto con el idioma Inglés.