The last novice

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serge_girard
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Re: The last novice

Post by serge_girard » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:00 pm

Eduardo,

'Many small bussines and profesionals needs solid desktop app, and there is were we must focuse.'

This is very true. I don't see any of my programs (apps...) running on a cellphone. The screen and buttons are too small etc.
A desktop is better for large amounts of data. Nowadays thieves will not steal a heavy desktop but they steal your cellphone with your identity et all.
I also don't believe in accessing your data from all over the world through a web-browser which WILL be hacked, sooner or later. Our goverment now wants everybody to have cellphones with all your online identity/bank in one app.... What possibly could go wrong? See this (in dutch)

http://datanews.knack.be/ict/nieuws/je- ... 59559.html

I don't trust cellphones! For safety or security there is only one machine you can trust: IBM Z14 (see: https://www.ibm.com/us-en/marketplace/z14)

So for the time being I stick with HMG which serves VERY well!

Serge

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Post by BeGeS » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:26 pm

Cellphone applications are not going to kill those on the desktop.

What can happen is that our customers want to access certain data of your company from your smartphone.
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Post by Roberto Lopez » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:24 pm

BeGeS wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:26 pm
Cellphone applications are not going to kill those on the desktop.
One of the biggest hits of Apple, was realize that desktops and mobile devices are different things and serves different purposes. That is the reason because there was not a "Windows 8" like OS on the Apple camp.

OSX still being one of the finest desktops available and Apple, never attempted to change it, or to make it 'mobile-friendly'.

So... desktops are best suited for creating content and mobile devices to 'consume' it.

This could appear obvious, but wasn't for a giant corporation like Microsoft (yes... I'm talking about Windows 8 again :) ).

On the Linux side, the same mistake was done: "Unity", nearly killed Ubuntu as a desktop OS and, GNOME 3... well... you know :).

I'm not saying that desktops are going to die, I'm just saying that Windows-Win32 desktop apps, will do (eventually) many years from now (I hope :) ).

One of my web apps, is a desktop one and was created with HMGSCRIPT (using a customized, not published yet, version). It is currently used on Windows, Linux, OSX and Android tablets and performs exactly the same on every OS, thanks to the HTML5 browsers bundled with/installed on all of those OSs. I even occasionally used it from my phone for testing purposes.
BeGeS wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:26 pm
What can happen is that our customers want to access certain data of your company from your smartphone.
Yes... but, if you created your main app using standard web server infrastructure, all your data will be always available to be accessed from any mobile device via Internet.

The supreme 'trick' is to make your desktop app (when possible) responsive enough to run mobile devices without changes... then... you'll be the happiest programmer in the world :D
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Post by Roberto Lopez » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:36 pm

serge_girard wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:00 pm
I also don't believe in accessing your data from all over the world through a web-browser which WILL be hacked, sooner or later.
You are absolutely right, but Windows clients are not the most secure thing in the world either... specially with all the 'calls to home' thing, that Microsoft introduced with Windows 10 :)

So... if the security if a concern for you, and you need to access remote data, a Linux client with a Firefox browser, could be the best bet to run your apps (not perfect... I know :) ).
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Post by Roberto Lopez » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:46 pm

The bottom line is: If you stick with Windows Win32 client apps, your world will get more and more smaller.

This could be a problem or not, depending on what your customers wants or need.

As simple as that :).
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Post by apais » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:20 pm

An that's my original point.
Today harbour should be generating WEBASSEMBLY along with C in order to get rid of that ugly javascript on the browser side.
Browsers are becoming more and more, portable OS's that run on any machine.

Regards
Angel

PD: want to see what webassembly is all about ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQcmRnWo7rs

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Post by Roberto Lopez » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:38 pm

apais wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:20 pm
Browsers are becoming more and more, portable OS's that run on any machine.
Only one sentence that resumes all the thing :)

+1000
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Post by Roberto Lopez » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:13 pm

apais wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:20 pm
Today harbour should be generating WEBASSEMBLY along with C in order to get rid of that ugly javascript on the browser side.
Many years ago, I published here my first draft of what HMGSCRIPT should be.

Part of the project I've imagined, involved a 'xBase to JavaScript translator'.

This translator, could be based on Harbour preprocessor to make things easier.

This idea could appear crazy for most people, but IMHO, it isn't.

Putting aside all of the dbf stuff (mostly not needed in a web environment) JavaScript has equivalents for most of the Harbour functions and control structures.

So... there is no need to create a real compiler, we simply must translate xBase code to its JavaScript equivalent, LINE BY LINE.

Some examples:

JavaScript 'indexOf()' method is equivalent to AT() harbour function:

https://www.w3schools.com/js/js_string_methods.asp

JavaScript 'push()' method is equivalent to AADD() Harbour function:

https://www.w3schools.com/jsref/jsref_push.asp

JavaScript 'While' is equivalent to DO WHILE on Harbour:

https://www.w3schools.com/js/js_loop_while.asp

From time to time, I get a little sad, because I have not enough available time, to create this translator to use it along with HMGSCRIPT and JMG.

That's life... not enough time :)
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Post by BeGeS » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:37 pm

Roberto Lopez wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:13 pm
JavaScript 'While' is equivalent to DO WHILE on Harbour:
Sorry for te intrusion, don Roberto, but JavaScript WHILE is equivalent to WHILE in Harbour (and Clipper). :oops:

In more than 20 years, he has never written DO before, and less ENDDO to close. Only WHILE / END. And works. :mrgreen:
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Post by Roberto Lopez » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:25 pm

BeGeS wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:37 pm
In more than 20 years, he has never written DO before, and less ENDDO to close. Only WHILE / END. And works. :mrgreen:
I don`t knew that!!!!

Meaning that I've spent thousands of keystrokes the last 30 years :)

Of course... I'm sure that you know, that you could use just 'end' instead 'enddo', 'endif' end 'endcase'? :)
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