The last novice

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luisvasquezcl
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Re: The last novice

Post by luisvasquezcl » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:35 am

Mientras tanto a seguir disfrutando estas herramientas geniales.

EduardoLuis
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Post by EduardoLuis » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:44 pm

Hola Amigos:

Tratando de ser algo mas optimista que mis colegas Roberto, Apais, y de alguna manera Luis, no creo que todo esté perdido o que, como menciona Apais, estamos navegando en bote pinchado.-
Cierta es la afirmación de Roberto al sentenciar que "amamos XBase", y por esa precisa razón, tal vez esté en nosotros agudizar la forma en que podamos indirectamente vincular nuestras aplicaciones para que se comuniquen con otros entornos, especificamente los móviles.-
Aún estoy estudiando HMGSCRIPT y JMG por lo que sin abandonar Xbase amplie la posibilidad a nuevos desarrollos Mysql.-
Reconozco que poco afecto tengo por MySql, probablemente porque Xbase fue mi entorno desde hace muchos años.-
La lucha por sostener Xbase es dura y ciertamente solitaria.- MS desde hace muchísimos años batalló y debo reconocer con gran exito por hacer desaparecer Xbase.- La desaparición de Clipper, Fox, Dbase, CA (DbFast, Visual Object) no se debió a la aparición de mejores tecnologías en el manejo de datos, simplemente a la consolidación de un control del "mercado", en el que se aplicó la regla de oro: si no puedo vencerlo lo compro.- Y así MS logró posicionar, como "unicas" sus herramientas para el manejo de datos.-
Dicho esto y por formación profesional (abogado), estoy acostumbrado a peleas difíciles, pero no resigno ni me entrego facilmente.- Por esa razón, sigo apostando a buscar, aunque mas no sea, cualquier alterntiva que me conduzca a preservar Xbase.- Empezando una pelea con todo en contra, que más puede perderse ?
Un cordial abrazo a todos los colegas y amigos.-
Eduardo

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BeGeS
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Post by BeGeS » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:02 pm

Muy bien, Eduardo. Sí señor. Estoy de acuerdo en todo lo que dices.

Cabe resaltar esto:
EduardoLuis wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:44 pm
La desaparición de Clipper, Fox, Dbase, CA (DbFast, Visual Object) no se debió a la aparición de mejores tecnologías en el manejo de datos, simplemente a la consolidación de un control del "mercado", en el que se aplicó la regla de oro: si no puedo vencerlo lo compro.- Y así MS logró posicionar, como "unicas" sus herramientas para el manejo de datos.
Y esto otro también:
EduardoLuis wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:44 pm
...tal vez esté en nosotros agudizar la forma en que podamos indirectamente vincular nuestras aplicaciones para que se comuniquen con otros entornos, especificamente los móviles.
I get by with a little help from my friends

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Post by apais » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:06 pm

Quien dice yo ?
Quien modificará harbour para que genere codigo java y asi poder usar JavaJX y todas sus librerias de firma digital y encriptacion ?
Quien armará una compilacion de harbour para apps nativas Android con acceso a todos los recursos locales (gps, acelerometro, audio, video, etc ) ?
Quien hará lo mismo para IOS ?
Quien hara que harbour pueda ser usado en el browser en lugar de javascript ?
Quien hara la version en harbour de Node.js ?
Quien programará acceso en harbour a bases no SQL (Mongodb, etc)
Quien programará acceso en harbour a la API de Google (docs, forms, firebase, etc)
Quien hara un SOAP server en harbour y un cliente de web services ?

Yo no. No tengo el nivel tecnico que se requiere ni el dinero para financiarlo.

Asi estan la cosas amigos =)

----------- English ------------------

Who says me ?
Who will modify Harbor to generate Java code and thus be able to use JavaJX and all its digital signature libraries and encryption?
Who will build a harbour build for native Android apps, with access to all local resources (gps, accelerometer, audio, video, etc)?
Who will do the same for IOS?
Who will make that harbour can be used in the browser instead of javascript?
Who will do the harbour version of Node.js?
Who will program harbour access to non-SQL databases (Mongodb, etc)
Who will program harbour access google API (docs, forms, firebase, etc)
Who will make a SOAP server in harbour ? And a web services Client?

Not me. I do not have the technical level that is required nor the money to finance it.

So ...

I'm currently doing my project in html-css-javascript+node or html-css-javascript+php depending on the needs.
My clients are not willing to wait for harbour evolution.
Still, harbour is excellent for custom servers an with impecable performance.
Windows GUI apps ? Mehhh, people see them with they best poker face when presented to.
HTML responsive apps ? Still causing the "Woooooow" efect. =)
Harbour for Rapberry PI ?... maybe
Harbour for Arduino ? nah
We are condemne to curly braces =(

Enough ranting for now, =D

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Post by Roberto Lopez » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:30 am

Como dije, estoy seguro, que todos quienes estamos aquí, amamos xBase, no hay dudas de ello, pero, ese amor, no debe impedirnos ver la realidad.

Hay nuevos lenguajes, que superan a xBase en muchos aspectos, son simples y poderosos y se están convirtiendo en nuevos estándares (por ejemplo, Ruby).

En mi opinión, Ruby es el sucesor 'ideológico' de xBase.

El creador de Ruby (Yukihiro Matsumoto) dijo:

"A menudo la gente, especialmente los ingenieros en computación, se centran en las máquinas. Ellos piensan, "Haciendo esto, la máquina funcionará más rápido. Haciendo esto, la máquina funcionará de manera más eficiente. Haciendo esto..." Están centrados en las máquinas, pero en realidad necesitamos centrarnos en las personas, en cómo hacen programas o cómo manejan las aplicaciones en los ordenadores. Nosotros somos los jefes. Ellos son los esclavos."

Esa es la filosofía de xBase.

// English

As I said, I am sure, that all of us here, love xBase, there is no doubt about it, but, that love, should not prevent us from seeing reality.

There are new languages, which surpass xBase in many ways, are simple and powerful and are becoming new standards (for example, Ruby).

In my opinion, Ruby is the 'ideological' successor to xBase.

The creator of Ruby (Yukihiro Matsumoto) said:

"Often people, especially computer engineers, focus on the machines. They think, "By doing this, the machine will run fast. By doing this, the machine will run more effectively. By doing this, the machine will something something something." They are focusing on machines. But in fact we need to focus on humans, on how humans care about doing programming or operating the application of the machines. We are the masters. They are the slaves."

That's the xBase philosophy.
Regards/Saludos,

Roberto


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Post by luisvasquezcl » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:50 am

Roberto, como siempre tienes toda la razón, no hay que cerrarse a la posibilidad del cambio, con la diferencia que ahora tenemos la experiencia de saber como funciona windows gracias a ti a traves de hmg,

Roberto, as you are always right, do not close the possibility of change, with the difference that we now have the experience of knowing how windows works thanks to you through hmg,

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Post by esgici » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:06 am

Possibilities has some limits and needs are as big as imaginations :(
an-idea-thats-bold.jpg
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Viva INTERNATIONAL HMG :D

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Post by Rathinagiri » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:59 pm

Thank you for the insightful thought sharing Roberto.

JMG is definitely promising. I think we can revamp with updates.
Windows GUI apps ? Mehhh, people see them with they best poker face when presented to.


Not always! Even now systems are running with programs compiled using clipper summer 87. Until MS-Windows is there, HMG will also be there.

IMHO, mobile devices are useful only when the data entry is very minimal. Native desktop applications will always have demand.

My question is, when there is SQL for database operations, why there is no such CQL (Computer Query Language)!? which will form a wrapper (like HMG) over OS/Platform/Device. May be something may emerge in the future programming.
East or West HMG is the Best.
South or North HMG is worth.
...the possibilities are endless.

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Post by Roberto Lopez » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:08 am

Rathinagiri wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:59 pm
Thank you for the insightful thought sharing Roberto.

JMG is definitely promising. I think we can revamp with updates.
The use of HTML+CSS+JavaScript, to build our client apps, will make them "universal" (they will run everywhere (including Windows desktops)). The updating process for customers is as easy as press F5 on their browsers.

For Android, I create .apks (from HTML+CSS+JS source) using Website2Apk utility (a GREAT Claudio recommendation).

The process of creating an app, using this technologies, is very difficult, since you must use a very complex set of different things, at least 3 on client (HTML+CSS+JS) and at least other two (PHP and SQL) on the server side.

So, we are talking about five different things, but if you use, some JS aid (like jQuery) and other libraries, the things gets worse (or better?) :)

There is a lot of very promising projects, that tends to lower the number of technologies involved from the programmer POV.

I'm confident that sooner or later, a web apps programmer will only need know only one SIMPLE and POWERFUL language, that could be used on client an server too.

I've used caps on 'simple' and 'powerful', because, already exists the possibility to use JavaScript on servers too, but, it is not simple and do not relieve us from HTML and CSS :)
Regards/Saludos,

Roberto


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EduardoLuis
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Post by EduardoLuis » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Hi Friends:

About this topic, what Rathi said:
Not always! Even now systems are running with programs compiled using clipper summer 87. Until MS-Windows is there, HMG will also be there.

IMHO, mobile devices are useful only when the data entry is very minimal. Native desktop applications will always have demand.
It's true.-
In that case, HMG have enough power to solve any complex situation on DeskTop applications, with the only limit of our imagination.-
Not all will be mobile app.- Many small bussines and profesionals needs solid desktop app, and there is were we must focuse.- In my case i've been developing app for attorneys and notarys who needs app exclusivelly for desktop, these app manage big database files and unlimited number of documents (doc, pdf, forms) that must have strong encryption.- In those HMG becomes de best way to make it possible, easy for end user, and efficient functionality.-
Till i know HMG, my base developper system was CA-VisualObject.- A good tool but too complex by the time i must upgrade end users app.-
With HMG everything it's simple and easy, and upgrade end user app it's a kid's games.-
I don't have "gods words", Just an opinion becoming from my experience.
Long life for HMG.
Eduardo

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