IDE for HMG [Programming Without Coding Technology (PWCT)]

Utilities like DBU, Make, IDE written in HMG/ used to create HMG based applications

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Mahmoud Fayed
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Re: IDE for HMG [Programming Without Coding Technology (PWCT)]

Post by Mahmoud Fayed » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:07 pm

Roberto Lopez wrote: Yes... I've was interested... I've downloaded it some time ago and attempted to do something (without read any docs :) ) and I've failed.
Most of *special purpose software* can be used directly without reading documenation, because we know the job and we expect how it will be done.

For example, using a *word processor program* is easy without reading documentation because we know the job (writing a document) and we expect how it will be done (writing the document directly in an empty space).

With respect to *General purpose software* we need at least reading some documentation so we can know how to do what we are looking to do.

For example, when you open *Visual FoxPro* you will find the command window (Like the dot prompt in DBASE III+) , here and at the start, you will find the command window is useless if you don't know at least one visual foxpro command.

PWCT is a *General purpose software* which can be used as
[1] Programming without coding tool
[2] HMG IDE (with coding and/or without coding)

Roberto Lopez wrote: In my humble opinion, the goal of create applications without coding is good, but, if the user is required to learn lots of new concepts that are not natural or common sense ones, the tool will be not useful.
The are a little concepts which are necessary to use PWCT

These concept are :-
A Server replace the project file
A resistance replace the function/procedure
A goal designer replace the the code editor
A goal replace source code file
A Step replace block of code
A Transporter replace Wizards & Code Generation tools
Interaction using Transporter replace writing code

And most of the other PWCT concepts is not more than features (You learn it if and only if you need it).

For example, i am a *word processor* user, i just use 20% of it's features And i learn somthing new when
1 - I Need it or
2 - I have some time and i like to learn
Roberto Lopez wrote: Moreover, the item '2' of your response states:

"[ Programming With Coding Layer ( HarbourMiniGUI Extended) ]"

So, only for forum users clarification... the "IDE for HMG" in your original message is not correct.

The users must be noticed about that.
PWCT is a *General purpose software* which can be used as
[1] Programming without coding tool
[2] HMG IDE (with coding and/or without coding)

So I am sure about using PWCT as HMG IDE
This is one of the main PWCT goals from three years ago, when i started the PWCT project.

PWCT provide HMG developer with the features expected from an IDE

1 - PWCT Enable the developer to write Harbour/xHarbour & HMG code without restrictions at all.
2 - PWCT Enable the developer to Create, Build & Run Console, GUI & Mixed mode applications
3 - PWCT Enable the developer to use the Goal Designer & the Form Designer while developing a HMG application.
4 - PWCT generate HMG code
jortega wrote: I meant that can not be installed
I need your help to understand the problem you have while installing PWCT, I need to know what is the error message ? , and what is the windows version under usage ?.

Greetings,
Mahmoud

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Roberto Lopez
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Post by Roberto Lopez » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:56 pm

Mahmoud Fayed wrote:
Most of *special purpose software* can be used directly without reading documenation, because we know the job and we expect how it will be done.
<...>
Ok.

I understand your point of view, but I still disagree in the most part.

IMHO you should add a new abstraction layer between your tool and the user, to let him to focus in the problem to solve instead the tool logic.

Of course, I know that it is a hard task (very hard indeed).

From early 80's, I've read articles about the end of programming and the coming of a new age when users could create their software without coding, but, as you can see, programmers still exists yet :)

Personally, I've thought that the best way to go, could be to create an intermediate language (higher than xBase) capable to better understand to a final user than xBase can do and a GUI interface capable to automatically write programs in such language, without the need from the part of the user to learn new concepts.

Regarding the 'IDE' term, I've not referred to the term itself, but, the backend GUI library needed by your tool.

Regards,

Roberto.
Regards/Saludos,

Roberto


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Mahmoud Fayed
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Post by Mahmoud Fayed » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:02 pm

Roberto Lopez wrote: IMHO you should add a new abstraction layer between your tool and the user, to let him to focus in the problem to solve instead the tool logic.

Of course, I know that it is a hard task (very hard indeed).
The problem is related to the *Art* too where the system need a lot of ideas (maybe collected from many developers).

But the good new is that PWCT is an open architecture
Where we can add new abstraction layer by adding new components to the system using the designers avaible inside it.

Note : These components is not isolated, these componentes are designed to work together.

[1] Domain Tree & Components
http://doublesvsoop.sourceforge.net/d35.htm

[2] Interaction Pages Generator
http://doublesvsoop.sourceforge.net/d37.htm

[3] Interaction Designer
http://doublesvsoop.sourceforge.net/d36.htm

[4] Transporter Designer
http://doublesvsoop.sourceforge.net/d38.htm

[5] Rules for writing the code mask
http://doublesvsoop.sourceforge.net/d39.htm

Roberto Lopez wrote: From early 80's, I've read articles about the end of programming and the coming of a new age when users could create their software without coding, but, as you can see, programmers still exists yet :)
Yes programmers still exists yet.
But some programmers turned to developers (I mean the code less part - not the big picture).
And many users entered the domain of software development

Programmer/Developer is the person who can control the behavior of the machine and/or can build new software

By coding or without coding (Not directly coding) , it is just different methods of programming and the design part still exist

PWCT presents a forward step with respect to programming without coding
1 - We have power = the power of the code
because of the PWCT idea (coding simulation).
2 - Isolate the programmer from the syntax
Roberto Lopez wrote: Personally, I've thought that the best way to go, could be to create an intermediate language (higher than xBase) capable to better understand to a final user than xBase can do and a GUI interface capable to automatically write programs in such language, without the need from the part of the user to learn new concepts.
I understand you point of view, you mean
1 - High level of abstraction
2 - Better usablility with respect to the GUI interface

I am going in this way also portablility (Windows, Linux, MAC, Web & Mobile) is one of my goals.

Greetings,
Mahmoud

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Post by Steed » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:41 pm

Hi,

I try, but i can´t understood how to made and simple HMG application with this tool



Regards,

Ed

Ho

Trate, pero no pude entender como hacer una simple aplicacion con esta herramienta

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